Welcome to Basic Stuff Magazine’s first ever Fandom Fireside Chat! We sat down with members of the Shadowhunters fandom to discuss all things fanfiction. We talked about the dangers of WIPs (works in progress), the versatility of Malec (Magnus and Alec from Shadowhunters), the appeal of AUs (alternate universe fiction), and why it’s not all about the porn.
What was the first thing that drew you to reading and/or writing fanfiction?
Dylan: Being frustrated, mostly, but also being curious. I didn’t know it was even a thing before I came across a high school classmate reading from [Fanfiction.net]. It was Prison Break that first pulled me in enough to write something, and the thing that drove me to give it a shot was this unfulfilled need to see Michael and Sucre develop their relationship further. I wasn’t seeing what I wanted to see, so I wrote it instead.
Erin: Frustration was definitely a factor for me in seeking to read fanfic. The need for more and better scenes and scenarios with the characters I most wanted to see together. Buffy and Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) had a terrible situation and all I ever wanted was more of their love! And dear God, don’t get me started on how much more Malec I need in my everyday life.
Serendi: The reading definitely started with curiosity back in high school when I somehow got myself into Avatar: The Last Airbender fic. The writing, though… nowadays with Shadowhunters, I think it 100% stems more from frustration and the ‘could have beens’; because, God, I love that show, but, ARGH, THE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES.
Dylan: Oh my God, same. Do we all have a high school introduction-to-fic story?
Serendi: Absolutely. God, what a moment that was. I define my existence with pre-ff.net me, and post-ff.net me.
Erin: I am a little old to have found it in high school, but I have been reading it for a long time now. It has really helped fill out characters for me. Even with Supernatural, I read things that now FEEL like canon. Because you can tell the writers know the characters so well, and they fill in parts we’ve never seen on-screen in such a way that feels like it was REAL.
Brie: Erin, I definitely wouldn’t say you are too old to have read it in high school! They used to print physical zines with fanfiction back in the 60s – back in the original Star Trek days. But this discussion is making me have a very visceral memory of using Lord of the Rings web-rings to seek out new things to read when I was 12 or 13. It really used to be so hard to find good fanfiction; and there were so many different websites, too. Fandom is spoiled these days with having everything in one, easy-to-search place.
Rebecca: My introduction to fic was definitely high school – I remember randomly seeing Stargate SG-1 on a rainy day while on vacation, watching six episodes in a row, and then when I googled (it probably wasn’t even Google back then, let’s be real) the show, finding an archive dedicated exclusively to Stargate fanfic. I’ve always loved to read anything and everything, so I dove in. I have yet to surface [laughs]. I love that fanfic explores storylines you wished you could see in whatever canon-verse it is or gives you relationships you, sadly, know will not exist in canon.
Brie: I really love that fanfiction can take something that was hinted at or barely touched on on-screen, and really expand and explore it. What would have happened if just XYZ had happened differently, or not at all? I started reading Roswell fic because I wanted more backstory on Michael’s troubled upbringing. I remember being so disappointed that they gave it maybe half an episode but then they pretty much just dropped it. Fortunately, there was no shortage of fic exploring that.
Lu: As for me, my fanfiction awakening (that sounds way dirtier than it should) was also in high school, and as far as I remember, it was complete serendipity because I just found that random blog and started reading. Needless to say, I did not go back from it. I started writing around the same time. I think to me, it was some kind of democratization of writing and that’s what was so appealing. The fact that it is writing that is available to anyone that bothers to look for it.
What is your favorite kind of fanfiction to read, in a general sense?
Dylan: Anything with clever writing, anything that intensifies the original canon or subverts it or puts certain moments under a microscope and explores it further. I also love, love, love fics where characters half fall in love or develop a bond before they even meet.
Erin: I will read anything about the things I am passionate about. My shows, movies, even sports. But damn, I am hopeless to a good love story. I used to be fully against AUs, but my mind was changed by reading how the characters I love can find each other in any situation. Oh my God, that is just so special.
Rebecca: I don’t know what it says about me that I love angst with a happy ending. AU, canon, it doesn’t matter – give me some pining and misunderstandings before the ‘OMG, you love me, too??’ moments any day. Also, I’m pretty sure the first fic rec – or at least one of the first – I ever sent Erin was an AU, so I’m taking credit for helping change your mind [laughs].
Brie: In general, I prefer to read things that are either canon or canon-adjacent, and that keep the characters at least in a similar-feeling universe. A big exception is if the setting for the AU helps foster some angsty goodness, or it strongly parallels canon – anything with Alec (Shadowhunters) as a soldier or part of a structured society, for example.
Serendi: I will basically read anything that makes me react, whether that means snorting in laughter, smiling so wide my cheeks hurt, or full-out sobbing. So long as characters maintain their core traits, I don’t mind the package their story comes in, be it 500-word ficlet, 200k word slow burn [editor’s note: the process of attraction building over a long period of time], AU, canon divergent, etc.
Lu: Somehow, I’ve always liked AUs more than canon fics, so it wasn’t about fixing something the original material had done wrong or something that I missed from the original material for me, but more about finding these characters that I love(d) in other situations and see them evolve and grow in all these creatively different ways. I very rarely read canon or canon-adjacent fics. I read both completed fics and WIPs because I like to live dangerously.
Rebecca: Oh, you brave, brave soul that reads WIPs! I have a few that I’ve been unable to stop myself from reading as they update (I’m lookin’ at “Best Laid Plans,” Dylan) but, in general, I cannot start a fic without knowing it’s going to be completed. It’s a thing with me. I think I was burned a few too many times in my early fic days by amazing fics that haven’t been updated in a decade.
Brie: There’s an incomplete Lord of the Rings fanfic that haunts me to this day, but yet I still seem to have no sense of self-preservation and continue to read WIPs. I do feel like there are fewer truly abandoned fics nowadays, for whatever reason.
Is there a specific trope in fic that you absolutely cannot resist?
Erin: I am going to come right out and say it: I am a sucker for hurt/comfort. I don’t want my favorite characters to be hurt! But if they are going to be, I sure love when they take care of each other!
Serendi: Everything Erin said. Especially because so often, characters – my faves, at least – hate being dependent on other people, there’s something so good about seeing them deal with being taken care of (unless they’re unconscious…whoops!). On the other hand, it also gets me good to see all of the ways a character reacts to seeing their loved ones get hurt and that whole process of going from sheer panic upon first glance to fear of the worst to active caretaking. Every hurt/comfort fic features that whole gamut of emotions that takes the reader so high and so low. Plus, when it comes to hurt/comfort, there’s my favorite moment, which is that final bit where one character is sitting at the bedside of the person who was hurt, holding their hand, thumb rubbing their knuckles, dark circles under their eyes while they wait for their loved one to wake up and croak out a ragged ‘hello.’ Yes, please.
Erin: Serendi! YES! That moment! I live for that moment! Why is that so special? I can’t really explain it, but maybe it is part of what you said, the vulnerability they have to show, maybe it’s that I am just a monster.
Dylan: Is it perhaps the idea that these hurt/comfort moments provoke emotional realizations? I love when characters see someone they care about put in a situation that forces them to re-evaluate how they view that person. Especially when the pre-hurt/comfort relationship is a bit rocky. Like ‘this person gets on my nerves, but now they’re almost dead, I kinda want them to stay with me forever.’ It fits nicely with enemies to lovers stories, I think. Which is also one of my favorite tropes. I’m also kinda really into Sadly Ever Afters? Sometimes, I really like the pain.
Serendi: Couldn’t agree more. This isn’t a trope, but my favorite fics are the ones that are capable of making my throat ache with how REAL it feels to me. It usually pops up in heavily emotionally angsty fics which is hands down my favorite general, overall theme to see in any story.
Dylan: Serendi, you’re speaking the language of my soul here.
Rebecca: All. Of. This. The angst, the sweet, sweet, angst. I’m also a big proponent of all of these tropes being slow burns; I think the more developed the story, the more I get to know the characters and the way they interact, the more emphatic that feeling Serendi described is.
Brie: If something promises to push a fave character of mine to the brink physically and emotionally, I’m all in. As long as it isn’t cheating or character death, I think I’m a bottomless pit for angst. I also cannot resist the ‘bound together emotionally and/or physically by magic’ trope.
Serendi: I’m still trying to figure out if I have angst limits yet, because I’ve definitely seen character deaths being done really well and enjoyed them as a result, despite loud, gross sobbing. Especially in the context of Magnus and Alec and who they are, near-death scenarios are a very real part of the lives they lead, which is why for them specifically, I can better deal with reading character death, though I still get horribly sad when I do encounter it.
Lu: I’m always a sucker for good angst, but I’m also ridiculously demanding with it because I really don’t like when angst is stretched for no reason, or if it’s there just to be there. I don’t know if I’m clear, but if there’s angst just for shock value or no apparent reason, I will get bored quickly and probably stop reading, especially if it stretches through scene after scene and there’s no purpose for it. To answer the original question though, definitely enemies (to friends) to lovers for me or anything involving kids and I’m a goner. The classic ‘everyone knows they crush on/love each other’ or its counterpart, ‘everyone thinks they’re dating but they’re not,’ are also among my favorites. But really, I like to read anything that feels real, which might be why that’s why I like writing it the most, too. If I can think, ‘Yup, that’s how that feels,’ or relate in any way to the characters or the situations, I’m usually sold.
Brie: Lu, you just made me remember how much I love the ‘everyone thinks they are dating but they’re not’ trope. My favorite slant on that one is when they eventually do start dating and announce it to everyone, the response is, ‘Wait, you weren’t dating already?!’
Lu: Yes, Brie. YES.
One trope you cannot stand?
Dylan: Self-inserts. I cannot get past the secondhand embarrassment and it’s, yeah, a hard no. But I haven’t seen one of those since my ff.net days.
Erin: I see a lot of that in hockey fic still. It’s impossible to read. I just can’t do it.
Serendi: Yeah, there’s something about them that does make me cringe, and also, I just would never want to occupy the same world as these characters. Like, yes, Magnus Bane is great, but I’m soft tofu next to him.
Dylan: Same here. God, I’m not worthy.
Serendi: I’m not worthy, plus I’m pretty sure I’d be the character that dies in the first episode.
Rebecca: Mary Sues are such a no-go for me, too [editor’s note: ‘Mary Sue’ is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character].
Lu: We’d all die if faced with Magnus Bane, let’s be real. I’m not too fond with Mpreg fics or the whole omega/beta stuff [editor’s note: male pregnancy; and wolfpack-inspired relationship dynamics], mainly because I don’t understand it and never tried to. Otherwise, I usually avoid fanfictions that portray unbalanced relationships, although it can be done well sometimes. But I think one of my biggest pet peeves is exaggerated possessiveness. If a character says, ‘You’re mine,’ to another, I’m usually out, even if it is meant to sound romantic. It just doesn’t work for me and it makes me uncomfortable.
Speaking of tropes, what it is about coffee shops?
Rebecca: I don’t know about anyone else, but for me, the coffee shop AUs are amazing because I can draw real-life associations. I could be that coffee shop patron one day! I WAS that barista! I can’t wield magic like Magnus Bane, but I used to make a killer macchiato. Maybe my soulmate still does.
Brie: I suppose, when you think about it, the premise is sort of silly; like it’s, ‘Imagine this crazy alternate reality where baristas are a thing.’ [laughs] But I think part of the appeal is that it’s an everyday sort of job that many of us have had, and it’s not uncommon to have customers you see every single day when you are a barista, so I think that definitely opens up a lot of possibilities as far as fiction goes. Plus, can you imagine how amazing it would be to have Alec Lightwood as the grumpy barista that you got to see every morning?
Serendi: I will read coffee shop AUs until kingdom come. To Rebecca and Brie’s points, there’s just this level of relatability, plus most of these fics are just so darn cute.
Dylan: Also, coffee shops just have a certain tone that is approachable, which, as Serendi just said, usually results in something lighthearted and cute. You know what you’re in for with a coffee shop fic. You could try writing a meet cute in a supermarket or a restaurant or bar, but it definitely wouldn’t create the same mood.
Serendi: I hate that the first thing that popped into my head when Dylan says ‘supermarket meet cute’ is this image of Magnus encountering Alec in the produce section and making a dumb, flirty comment about the big eggplant Alec is buying.
Dylan: See! Not the same mood! But also, there’s definitely a fic to write there! [laughs]
Erin: I would read the hell out of that.
Lu: Same. I think everything that can be said on coffee shop AUs has been said above. You can’t really get much more ‘normal’ and relatable than a coffee shop setting. It’s a familiar space for pretty much everyone, and there’s always room for coffee shop AUs in any fandom.
A recent article indicated Malec fic as mostly ‘erotic.’ What is your take on that?
Brie: I saw that, and it was a bit frustrating, to be honest. Especially when we just did an article breaking down the statistics of Malec fanfiction, and ‘erotic’ actually makes up a very small portion of it. I think this preconception that all fanfiction is porn stems from a lack of imagination, like people can’t imagine what else you could possibly want to read about your favorite characters doing. Of course there’s erotic stuff as well, but there’s just so much more variety in fanfiction than that.
Erin: I had a discussion with Dylan the other night and I have absolutely had this discussion before with Rebecca: we don’t want all of the porn or the ‘erotica.’ We want heads in laps while reading books. We want hand holding and waking up together.
Rebecca: We have absolutely had that discussion! The erotic aspect of any fic is just that – one facet of fanfiction. I love to see every nuance of a relationship in a fic; the good, the bad, and the sexy, and it does such a disservice to all of the writers to just say they write solely porn.
Serendi: I think it just seems like an uninformed statement. It’s easy to make that generalization to reach about any fanfic from the outside looking in, but the reality is a thousand times more complicated than assuming people just want to read/write porn. So much of fanfic is about developing relationships to a degree that the canon doesn’t achieve, and though sex can be a part of that, it does a discredit to the entire fandom to reduce their interest in a couple down to just porn.
Dylan: Hell, even in the event that it is shameless porn, in Malec’s case, it’s almost always about intimacy or connection in some form or another. I resent the insinuation that Malec fans are only out for porn, especially considering most Malec fans just want the basics, as Erin said. Affection. Emotional intimacy. Domesticity. Regular stuff, dude. I also resent the idea that a same-sex, biracial couple can’t be depicted as having a healthy, sexual relationship without being accused of fetishization. No one treats heterosexual erotic fanfic that way, no. They make goddamn films out of them.
Lu: The person who wrote that article and deemed Malec fanfiction as ‘mostly erotic’ was clearly uninformed, but it isn’t that unusual, especially since the whole #SaveShadowhunters movement started and media have been click-baiting us hard. They clearly had a preconceived opinion on fanfiction, fueled by the usual stereotypes of it being mostly porn, and they didn’t seek further. I can’t say I’ve never seen Malec fanfic just for the porn on AO3 before [editor’s note: Archive of Our Own, a popular fanfiction archive site often abbreviated as ‘AO3’], that would be lying, but I do agree with what’s been said by Dylan about the intimacy of it and the fact that people wouldn’t blink an eye if it were a heterosexual couple. I know that personally I don’t really like writing sex scenes – I always struggle with it, and sometimes, frankly, I hate it – but when I do it, it’s usually because it serves the overall plot and it shows something of their relationship, be it a milestone or just how comfortable they are with each other. I feel like that’s what most writers in this fandom do, but I could be wrong.
Dylan: I’m with Lu there. I can’t write PWP [editor’s note: porn without plot]. I tried, but I ended up with a multi-chaptered canon rewrite instead. [laughs]
Is there anything in fic that you want to read so badly and have yet to find? Or something you are longing to write but aren’t sure anyone is looking for it?
Dylan: I write for myself, so who’s looking for it or not doesn’t really play on my mind. I recently wrote a oneshot about Underhill and his completely original, non-canon boyfriend, Samael Hawkstorm, because the headcanon I had for them demanded to be written. And it’s my favorite! The next Malec fic I plan to write doesn’t have a happy ending, which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I’m super excited about it.
Serendi: That oneshot about Underhill and his boyfriend is one of the best things I’ve read. Never knew I’d need a fanfic of a fanfic in my life, but well… #Hawkhill4ever.
Dylan: Aw, thanks, Serendi!
Brie: I recently watched this Russian dragon ‘Beauty and the Beast’ movie called I Am Dragon, and it’s screaming for a Malec AU of it; and I say that as someone who isn’t big on AUs. If you haven’t seen it, go watch a trailer right now…and then please write it! I’m so desperate.
Serendi: For Shadowhunters specifically – which, of COURSE it’s about Shadowhunters – I’ve always been interested in the darker side of what it means for Magnus to be immortal and to have centuries of life weighing him down. I spend a decent amount of time on Tumblr rambling about it, but I’d love to sit down and write something for it at one point. It’s a topic that I’m pretty sure isn’t necessarily popular – it definitely doesn’t pop up in a ton of existing fic in general because it’s depressing and painful – but it’s something I find unbearably interesting.
Erin: I kind of love the painful stuff. I will read an extraordinary amount of fluff, but it can get boring. The painful stuff is where it gets interesting.
Rebecca: I think Brie and I have had the discussion about wanting to read a Malec Star Trek AU. I would devour that in a heartbeat. I’m constantly fitting their relationship into other scenarios I see/read, so I’m sure there are more I just can’t think of. I’m a huge AU fan.
Brie: Yes, Rebecca! I think there’s one Star Trek / Shadowhunters crossover that I’ve found, but there really should be more. The thing about the Star Trek universe is it is so vast and layered, there’s endless possibilities, and they don’t even have to be in Starfleet or be human. Ok, I feel like over the course of this conversation I’ve realized that I might not be as ‘anti-AU’ as I originally claimed [laughs].
Lu: I have too many writing ideas, and a vast majority of them will never see the light of day. One of them had Magnus being immortal and a warlock, and Alec being continuously reincarnated through different periods in time and Magnus having to watch him die every time until he just closes himself off completely. Well, that was the premise and there was much more plotting into that and about 11 or 12 chapters planned, but I don’t know if I’ll ever actually write it because multi-chaptered fics require more time than I have at the moment. As a reader, I still crave a Kingsman AU or a good murder fic. Or anything involving politics; I’m always a sucker for those.
A huge thank you to everyone who participated in the roundtable discussion about fanfiction. Please see below to find out where to chat more with our contributors!
Serendi: Fanfic writer/reader on AO3 at serendipitiness, also hanging out on Tumblr @laughingmagnus because that’s all I want for him.
Lu: Fanfic writer, occasional beta, and incorrigible late-night reader. Lecrit on AO3 and on Tumblr, @_L_ecrit on Twitter, Lucile in my daily life, and whatever people call me when they yell at me around here.
Dylan: Fanfic writer/occasional reader on AO3 as Superficial Peasant. @SuperficialPea on Twitter, @SuperficialPeasant on Tumblr.
Rebecca: Voracious consumer of fanfic, Research Assistant/News Nerd for BSS, and @rschaef9 on Twitter. Can frequently be found sending my friends fic recs and failing at not reading works-in-progress.
Erin: Fanfic reader and Fandom Features Editor for Basic Stuff Magazine, can be found on Twitter @winestainedlife.
Brie: Editor in Chief/Boss at Basic Stuff Magazine/BSS. Long-time fanfic reader and fandom member, occasional writer. Also currently beta reader for theonetruenorth (for Shadowhunters). Can be found on Twitter @loveandsnuggles.
